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What's you opinion on the author's experience of ingesting of a plant concoction in the Amazon? Do you think the concoction played an important part in what happened to him during the ceremony or not? Could it be a placebo effect?

I haven't tried psychotropics for spiritual insights so I cannot speak from experience, but it does seem he found what he was searching for (perhaps placebo effect?) and might have found that anyway without them.

So many societies have done this throughout history that I assume it's a reasonable thing to do. Especially, or maybe only, if those societies still exist and are something noteworthy that we can learn from. I've read that some have the same effect as meditation and prayer though I'd be wary of ingesting such things.

I think it's a placebo effect - which is powerful. Even in medical research, placebo effects could go a long way of a patient's health. The author having knowledge that such concoction can help him led him to believe that it has an effect on him. Having a preconceived idea can really affect how you see things. Such faith can truly move mountains.

I feel uncomfortable whenever I remember the author's experience of a vision after ingesting a plant concoction. This opens the possibility of a hallucination and thus, questions the validity of his vision.

I think the plant concoction was the sole reason for triggering the psychedelic trip that the author experienced in The Amazon. Once he was in that trippy zone, he started having the vision.

I think they definitely played a role in the experiences he had. I cannot explain how but I do believe that there is a direct linkage whether it was because they believed so or for another reason. The good thing is that he advises against depending on psychotropics for quests.

Strange place, unknown effects, medical assistance not readily available? Isn't hard enough to take this type of drug in a familiar safe place. Why in the Amazon? Was it the sense of adventure or strong belief that it is effective. Having worked on Navajo reservation in Arizona I have seen the effect of native medicine on patients. Some being good and some bad so the power of the mind can work in powerful ways. So yes, I believe the plant concoction play an important part in his experience during the ceremony. It could have been both a chemical effect or a placebo effect.

I don’t know why, but it somewhat scares me. I feel like it could go wrong, so I would not ever do this for myself at all. I’m not saying he is wrong for doing it, it just wouldn’t be my method to hear from the spiritual realm or have a vision. People who drink too much can become so inebriated that this creates a false reality. I think psychotropics can be more powerful than that and have the same outcome.

abbiejoice wrote: ↑07 Mar 2019, 23:51 I feel uncomfortable whenever I remember the author's experience of a vision after ingesting a plant concoction. This opens the possibility of a hallucination and thus, questions the validity of his vision.

I never thought of it that way, but now that you mentioned it, some plants could give hallucinations and these tribes mistake it as visions. It really does make me think about whether it's true or not.

I think that this was a very dangerous thing to do. It made him dizzy and vomit, so it didn't sound like a pleasant experience. Though, he shared that he received direction and purpose for his life more clearly during that, maybe his willingness to be so open allowed deeper perception.

It probably was just a placebo effect . It doesn't make any sense for that plant concoction to have any effect on him other than him feeling sick.

abbiejoice wrote: ↑07 Mar 2019, 23:51 I feel uncomfortable whenever I remember the author's experience of a vision after ingesting a plant concoction. This opens the possibility of a hallucination and thus, questions the validity of his vision.

I'm going to have to agree with you on this one. He also stated that he received a larger portion than the rest, which I believe is the reason his 'vision' began early than the others. I don't feel like you should have to endure a purge to connect with visions. He certainly felt the physical effects of stress on his body, let alone the mental repercussions of the hallucinatory drugs.

I have to wonder if his perception of the amount others received and the time it took for their experiences to begin was tarnished a bit since he was the first to ingest the concoction. I also couldn't help but think the experience he described sounded a bit like what happens after having ingested too much alcohol. Nonetheless, I do believe his subconcious may have been coming through more clearly because he was expecting something to happen.

Amanda Deck wrote: ↑07 Mar 2019, 20:07 So many societies have done this throughout history that I assume it's a reasonable thing to do. Especially, or maybe only, if those societies still exist and are something noteworthy that we can learn from. I've read that some have the same effect as meditation and prayer though I'd be wary of ingesting such things.

I really like that you highlighted this. I think it’s very interesting because for me, living in the U.S. and raised by conservative and Catholic parents who are very anti-substance use (other than alcohol which is seen as normal), taking substances was never seen as normal in any way. I know there’s is a segment of people in the US (even outside the Native American community, which I see another commenter has referenced) for whom the infection of substances for spiritual purposes is normal, but they are often dismissed (at least in the community I was raised in) as weirdo hippies.

I think it’s interesting how normal this was and still is in many societies specifically for the purpose of accessing spiritual truths. It can be hard to fully wrap my mind around this perspective, especially coming from a perspective in which brain chemistry can determine our experiences so thoroughly. For me, it’s hard to imagine seeing any essentially drug-induced experience as accessing a huge ransoms truth, but this is probably a perspective that has historically been rare and atypical.

I agree with other commenters that this was a risky activity for him to do and that I probably wouldn’t do it. It’s impossible for me to say it didn’t affect his visions. But I guess I’m interested in understanding why for some people and societies, this last part doesn’t necessarily matter.

Good topic, thanks for bringing it up!