Father Brown G K Chesterton - history question

lady_charlie · Post by **lady_charlie** » 01 Jun 2013, 05:36

Hello!
Any Father Brown fans? I got this for free on the kindle and I am really enjoying it. It is sort of like Miss Marple or Colombo, or rather, probably the other way around, since these stories predate all the others. The quiet man in the corner that no one even sees, solves the crime in a wink just by being observant.

I have a question if anyone is an authority on the people of Scotland.
in The Honour of Israel Gow, the mystery revolves around the Earl of Glengyle, "the last representative of a race whose valour, insanity, and violent cunning had made them terrible even among the sinister nobility of their nation in the sixteenth century. None were deeper in that labyrinthine ambition, in chamber within chamber of that palace of lies that was built up around Mary Queen of Scots. The rhyme in the
country-side attested the motive and the result of their machinations candidly: As green sap to the simmer trees is red gold to the Ogilvies"

Does anyone have the scoop on Mary? I guess I am missing some bits and need a history lesson.
It sounds like sap is to trees (life blood) as gold is to Ogilvies, is that all that means or is there something I am missing?

Maud Fitch · Post by **Maud Fitch** » 01 Jun 2013, 07:48

I'm going to be literal here and say that the Earl of Glengyle and Glengyle Castle are fictitious and "As green sap to the simmer trees, is red gold to the Ogilvies" is another clue to the FB mystery. The Ogilvies amassed wealth, particularly gold. If you've reached the end of the book, you'll see what happened to their riches.

I think the family lied about their connections to Mary Queen of Scots for religious reasons. The battle between Queen Elizabeth I and Mary Queen of Scots was Catholic versus Protestant. Quote "When Elizabeth's sister Mary, a Catholic, came to the throne in 1553 she made England Catholic again and Elizabeth was put into the Tower of London so that she could not lead a Protestant rebellion against Mary and take her place on the throne."

"When Queen Elizabeth 1 came to the throne in 1558 she made England Protestant. Consequently she had many Catholic enemies who wanted to see her replaced by Mary Queen of Scots. In 1558 Mary Queen of Scots, granddaughter of Henry VIII's elder sister Margaret, had challenged Elizabeth for the throne of England, but had failed. The Catholics believed that because Elizabeth had been declared illegitimate in 1536, Mary's challenge to the throne was stronger than Elizabeth's." Perhaps gold was used as bribery?

Not sure if that helps but it's a fascinating piece of Tudor history.

lady_charlie · Post by **lady_charlie** » 01 Jun 2013, 12:45

Thanks!
Right now he is listing all the possible connections between the clues and it seems a little tiresome but surely will all come out right in a page or two. Someone made the mistake of telling FB there was no possible connection between the clues...hopefully he gets to the end of his list of possible connections soon and tells us which one is the actual one.

I think there are 52 Father Brown stories and I have read 5 or 6 so far. I am reading other things in between.

GKCfan · Post by **GKCfan** » 30 Aug 2013, 00:28

You can tell I like Father Brown by my name here. Mary, Queen of Scots was the victim of a smear campaign as part of the political machinations of the era. You can find out more in books like Antonia Fraser's and Rosalind Marshall's books on Mary, Queen of Scots.

Zannie · Post by **Zannie** » 06 Sep 2013, 20:18

Mary Queen of Scots was the daughter of Henry 8 of England sister and the king of Scotland. Mary was born queen but due to hostilities in Scotland she was sent to France young to be educated and married to the dauphin. The marriage was short and produced no children. So Mary comes back to Scotland which her illegitimate half brother was acting as regent. She was Catholic the majority of Scotland was Protestant. Elizabeth 1 was her cousin and the Queen of England. She sent a homosexual to marry Mary. They had a child. This child due to the line of succession was Elizabeth and Mary's heir. Mary ended up being imprisoned by Elizabeth and later beheaded. James 1 of England and Scotland was Catholic. This is how the two countries came to have the same monarch. It was his descendants the STUART's that were beheaded and England had a short republic under Cromwell. Before the monarchy was restored (but with their powers greatly reduced) a law that you had to be Protestant to be monarch.

I love Father Brown!

-- Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:24 am --

I think Elizabeth was trying to prevent the hostilities that happened when her Catholic Sister, also a Mary, had come to the throne after their Protestant brother Edward. It was their father Henry 8 who broke away from the Catholic Church to have his marriage to Mary 1 mother annulled (making her illegitimate) so he could marry Elizabeth 1 mother. Both daughters where latwr legitimized.