Free Will

cd20 · Post by **cd20** » 24 Mar 2021, 16:53

markodim721 wrote: ↑24 Mar 2021, 15:39 I think that there are limits to free will and that it is limited by our experience, culture, conscience...

I would have to agree with you there, I would also say it is limited by our beliefs as well.

cd20 · Post by **cd20** » 24 Mar 2021, 16:56

micoleon13 wrote: ↑24 Mar 2021, 12:44 It's an interesting opinion to have that God steps back in order for us to have free will. We take it so much for granted. Yes, if there was constant interaction or the feel of someone "overseeing" every action that we made, our choices would be based on how we thought they would be interpreted by Him or what the repercussions would be. This would affect each and every action and therefore a range of free will.

Very true. My daughter is 18 and away at college and she still calls me to ask for my permission to do stuff, because that is what she is used to. I am trying to teach her that she is an adult and responsible for her own decisions, she doesn't need my permission. And, as someone above said it would also be limited by our consciousness, experiences, and culture.

cd20 · Post by **cd20** » 24 Mar 2021, 16:58

Alice Ngugi wrote: ↑24 Mar 2021, 13:15 Someone once told me that if God was small enough for us the human kind to figure out, he wouldn't be big enough for us to worship. I also do believe that God's mystery in all he does allows us the wonder to want to know Him more. That way we can exercise the free will He gave us to intentionally pursue Him and try to unravel the mystery of who he is. I do believe that it's a logical premise

I love that "if God was small enough for us the human kind to figure out, he wouldn't be big enough for us to worship. So very true. I like the way you explained it. Thank you for taking the time to comment on this post and for sharing your perspective.

Paige125 · Post by **Paige125** » 25 Mar 2021, 05:34

We are giving free will, so was could be responsible for our actions. It is true that God is not physically involved in our daily lives but i do believe that he influences our lives through the bible, thereby influencing our will.

talli_5 · Post by **talli_5** » 25 Mar 2021, 06:40

That would imply that true believers had no free will, no? I don't think God is trying to trick his followers. I just think many people greatly misinterpreted a piece of literature written hundreds of years ago by people who beat their wives and believe 'blood letting' was an actual cure for a lot of diseases.

cd20 · Post by **cd20** » 25 Mar 2021, 09:01

Paige125 wrote: ↑25 Mar 2021, 05:34 We are giving free will, so was could be responsible for our actions. It is true that God is not physically involved in our daily lives but i do believe that he influences our lives through the bible, thereby influencing our will.

I agree that we are given free will and are responsible for our actions. I also believe that God is physically involved in our daily lives and He does influence our lives through the Bible as well. I do believe that our beliefs affect our free will as well.

cd20 · Post by **cd20** » 25 Mar 2021, 09:03

talli_5 wrote: ↑25 Mar 2021, 06:40 That would imply that true believers had no free will, no? I don't think God is trying to trick his followers. I just think many people greatly misinterpreted a piece of literature written hundreds of years ago by people who beat their wives and believe 'blood letting' was an actual cure for a lot of diseases.

I am what you would call a "true believer" and I still believe that I have free will. I have a choice as to what I do and how I respond to situations and things that happen to me. If I did not have free will I would have no choices. I know that God is not trying to trick His followers or be deceptive. What piece of literature are you referring to?

CGO · Post by **CGO** » 25 Mar 2021, 13:57

I agree with the author, although I don't agree with the six days creation theory. I believe God does not reveal himself always in order to give us that free will.

cd20 · Post by **cd20** » 26 Mar 2021, 08:06

CGO wrote: ↑25 Mar 2021, 13:57 I agree with the author, although I don't agree with the six days creation theory. I believe God does not reveal himself always in order to give us that free will.

I do believe that free will might be one of the reasons that God does not reveal Himself face to face, but I also believe that is a mystery that we will not know this side of heaven. I found the author's six days of creation interesting, but I am with you, I don't necessarily believe it. I think it is impossible for us to go back and set exact times that things happened. Ecclesiastes 3:11 says, "He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart, yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end." This I believe.

Katherine Smith · Post by **Katherine Smith** » 26 Mar 2021, 15:58

The way that the author phrased his idea was not the most succinct, but what I think he is asking is whether there is a predetermined plan to life that we will follow. I agree with this idea in part because life can be random and at times cruel which I do not think is a part of any grand plan. I do believe though that some things happen for a reason which is not always clear to us at the time. As for the world being built in six days, I have to disagree with that one because the text of the Bible was never meant to be taken literally, but rather metaphorically.

Dimi1 · Post by **Dimi1** » 27 Mar 2021, 05:40

I think free will is there; it would be there even if somehow we knew that God created the world in 6 days. It's actually similar to established scientific evidence. Even if a lot of things in the world are proven, there are always non-believers that have their own theory and act accordingly as a result of their free will.

cd20 · Post by **cd20** » 27 Mar 2021, 12:27

Katherine Smith wrote: ↑26 Mar 2021, 15:58 The way that the author phrased his idea was not the most succinct, but what I think he is asking is whether there is a predetermined plan to life that we will follow. I agree with this idea in part because life can be random and at times cruel which I do not think is a part of any grand plan. I do believe though that some things happen for a reason which is not always clear to us at the time. As for the world being built in six days, I have to disagree with that one because the text of the Bible was never meant to be taken literally, but rather metaphorically.

I believe there is a predetermined plan but because we have free will the choice we make can change that plan. I don't believe that God intended for there to be such cruelty in life either, but again, with free will, people make their own choices. I do believe the world was done in six days and that some portions of the Bible are literal, some parts are metaphorical and some are symbolic. Reading in the context of the time period that the Bible was written in helps to understand the scriptures better. Thanks for your perspective.

cd20 · Post by **cd20** » 27 Mar 2021, 12:31

Dimi1 wrote: ↑27 Mar 2021, 05:40 I think free will is there; it would be there even if somehow we knew that God created the world in 6 days. It's actually similar to established scientific evidence. Even if a lot of things in the world are proven, there are always non-believers that have their own theory and act accordingly as a result of their free will.

I agree, there are always non-believers (of any topic!) that have their own theories and do act according to their free will. Yet, some of them deny they have free will. As long as we are able to make our own choices, what else could that be called?!

talli_5 · Post by **talli_5** » 28 Mar 2021, 05:22

cd20 wrote: ↑25 Mar 2021, 09:03
talli_5 wrote: ↑25 Mar 2021, 06:40 That would imply that true believers had no free will, no? I don't think God is trying to trick his followers. I just think many people greatly misinterpreted a piece of literature written hundreds of years ago by people who beat their wives and believe 'blood letting' was an actual cure for a lot of diseases.
I am what you would call a "true believer" and I still believe that I have free will. I have a choice as to what I do and how I respond to situations and things that happen to me. If I did not have free will I would have no choices. I know that God is not trying to trick His followers or be deceptive. What piece of literature are you referring to?

I just don't agree that God keeping himself hidden gives us free will(As said in the quote from the original post). I believe if God wanted us to have free will then that's the reason we have it, anything else feels deceptive. The literature I'm referring to is the Bible, the edited and compromised version of the word of the disciples. What I mean is nobody should be taking the Bible so seriously. Religion is what should be taken seriously. The book we buy nowadays is not in fact the word of God. That's not an opinion that's just a historic fact, not even the Pope would disagree with me. It was his predecessors who rewrote it and butchered the beautiful teachings of Jesus Christ. We should be looking at what religious leaders tell us more critically, Christianity was a religion meant for ordinary people. So ordinary people should be able to understand it, overcomplicating things and convincing the followers that they need the leaders to decipher the bible is anti-christian.

cd20 · Post by **cd20** » 28 Mar 2021, 13:32

talli_5 wrote: ↑28 Mar 2021, 05:22
cd20 wrote: ↑25 Mar 2021, 09:03
talli_5 wrote: ↑25 Mar 2021, 06:40 That would imply that true believers had no free will, no? I don't think God is trying to trick his followers. I just think many people greatly misinterpreted a piece of literature written hundreds of years ago by people who beat their wives and believe 'blood letting' was an actual cure for a lot of diseases.
I am what you would call a "true believer" and I still believe that I have free will. I have a choice as to what I do and how I respond to situations and things that happen to me. If I did not have free will I would have no choices. I know that God is not trying to trick His followers or be deceptive. What piece of literature are you referring to?
I just don't agree that God keeping himself hidden gives us free will(As said in the quote from the original post). I believe if God wanted us to have free will then that's the reason we have it, anything else feels deceptive. The literature I'm referring to is the Bible, the edited and compromised version of the word of the disciples. What I mean is nobody should be taking the Bible so seriously. Religion is what should be taken seriously. The book we buy nowadays is not in fact the word of God. That's not an opinion that's just a historic fact, not even the Pope would disagree with me. It was his predecessors who rewrote it and butchered the beautiful teachings of Jesus Christ. We should be looking at what religious leaders tell us more critically, Christianity was a religion meant for ordinary people. So ordinary people should be able to understand it, overcomplicating things and convincing the followers that they need the leaders to decipher the bible is anti-christian.

I agree that God keeping himself hidden is probably not what gives us free will, I think it could be a possibility that He hides in part for that reason. I know that the Bible has gone through some editing over the years, but I believe it is still true to the original and there are many documents that prove it, not the exact same wording, but the meaning is the same. I do believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God. I agree that Christianity was and is meant for ordinary people. I do not believe that we need leaders to decipher the Bible, we are able to do it ourselves (to a point) and most Christian religions don't either. Christianity is not about religion it is about a relationship with God. I don't follow the Pope so I couldn't say what he would agree on or not.