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Do you think Gary should plead guilty or not? His father advised him to do so in order to pay respect to Michelle's parents. Mrs. Cohen advised him to plead not guilty as he did not remember his actions. Gary in prison was sure he did not commit the crime, but whether he was in control of his actions or not, he did commit the murder. What do you think?

Anna Bookowski wrote: ↑01 Jul 2021, 09:35 Do you think Gary should plead guilty or not? His father advised him to do so in order to pay respect to Michelle's parents. Mrs. Cohen advised him to plead not guilty as he did not remember his actions. Gary in prison was sure he did not commit the crime, but whether he was in control of his actions or not, he did commit the murder. What do you think?

I think this surrounds the whole issue of intention. Gary loved Michelle and had no intention of harming her and having no recollections of committing the crime may be a valid reason for him not pleading guilty.

A person is only responsible for actions they decide and commit in a conscious tate of mind. So Gary should not plead guilty by any means since he committed the crime while lucid dreaming.

I don't think he should plead guilty; however, it's easier said than done. He saw a recorded video of himself killing Michelle. I guess if there was no evidence or an explanation, he'd feel guilty for putting her family in this situation, and he'd plead guilty.

ROSEYANN wrote: ↑01 Jul 2021, 09:47

Anna Bookowski wrote: ↑01 Jul 2021, 09:35 Do you think Gary should plead guilty or not? His father advised him to do so in order to pay respect to Michelle's parents. Mrs. Cohen advised him to plead not guilty as he did not remember his actions. Gary in prison was sure he did not commit the crime, but whether he was in control of his actions or not, he did commit the murder. What do you think?

I think this surrounds the whole issue of intention. Gary loved Michelle and had no intention of harming her and having no recollections of committing the crime may be a valid reason for him not pleading guilty.

Yes, I think I agree with that. It was so heart-breaking, don't you think? I can't even imagine how terrible a person would feel if something like this would really happen! But I'm afraid that in reality, society would never believe this explanation, if anything they would place him in a compulsory mental care institution.
I was also wondering if my own feeling of being guilty - the consciousness of what I did even though I don't remember it - wouldn't make me plead guilty for myself.

Pleading guilty for a crime he did not commit does not sit well with me. He loved Michelle and there was no way he would have accepted that he was guilty of killing her. But if he did plead guilty, he would prolong the suffering of everyone involved. While I do not agree to keeping quiet for others' sake, it all mattered on what Gary thought more important.

Thabo Sibanda 1 wrote: ↑01 Jul 2021, 10:08 A person is only responsible for actions they decide and commit in a conscious tate of mind. So Gary should not plead guilty by any means since he committed the crime while lucid dreaming.

This is certainly a correct statement. On the other hand, if we consider all implications of multiverse theory and reasoning taken from quantum physics: let's assume that Gary from all the worldlines is in a quantum superposition, which would mean that all the Garys are not apart beings but the very same one Gary existing in all the worlds simultaneously. In this case, Gary who lucid dreamed, and the other Gary who committed a murder, are exactly the same person - hence Gary is guilty after all. But of course, as you said, THIS version of Gary was not aware of his actions - so he should not be judged for it.
And now, even if not responsible - he's still guilty of doing what he did. Just probably should not pay for it with a prison sentence - I believe that what happened was already very painful for him.

He shouldn't please guilty, although it'll be hard for him to prove his innocence, it is better to go down fighting than giving up.

DyanaFl wrote: ↑01 Jul 2021, 12:16 Pleading guilty for a crime he did not commit does not sit well with me. He loved Michelle and there was no way he would have accepted that he was guilty of killing her. But if he did plead guilty, he would prolong the suffering of everyone involved. While I do not agree to keeping quiet for others' sake, it all mattered on what Gary thought more important.

I understand what you mean. But I'm not sure if we can really say that he did not commit the crime - because he did, just was not conscious of it. I also think he was not guilty from this point of view. But now, if we take all the factors from the book, quantum physics implies that all the Garys from different worldlines are in fact the very same person. So even though this particular version of him did not decide to kill Michelle, he did that. I don't think he should be punished for this of course. I think what he felt was already terribly painful and undeserved.

Mtibza eM wrote: ↑01 Jul 2021, 12:24 He shouldn't please guilty, although it'll be hard for him to prove his innocence, it is better to go down fighting than giving up.

I also don't think he should plead guilty. I was thinking about what would I do in his place. Perhaps I would feel so terrible after seeing the video from the security camera, I would feel guilty after all? I imagine it would hurt me so much to be judged for such a crime, I wouldn't have the power to fight for myself. You're right - it would be extremely hard to prove innocence. I guess more people would believe in serious mental health problems than that he was overtaken by other-self, though.

jomana_3 wrote: ↑01 Jul 2021, 11:21 I don't think he should plead guilty; however, it's easier said than done. He saw a recorded video of himself killing Michelle. I guess if there was no evidence or an explanation, he'd feel guilty for putting her family in this situation, and he'd plead guilty.

Yes, the video was serious evidence. I think in the real world it would make it impossible case to prove different than guilty. I'm also thinking that maybe being in his place and seeing myself doing such a thing, I would mentally collapse and just start to believe that I have lost my mind. This all was even more heart-breaking because of his close, long-lasting relationship with her family too.

Pleading guilty will not help him since he actually didn't commit the murder. Even form the legal point of view there is no reason to do that. As we have seen, there is always a chance that he might convince the jury.

I think Gary should not plead guilty in court. The events of the day Mitchell died are not known to him. Gary loved Mitchell and he only killed her because Gary from the other worldline acted while lucid dreaming.

I don't think Gary should plead guilty because he was innocent. How can a person who didn't commit a crime, confess it? By doing so he affirms to be a criminal, which he is not, and he is killing his own conscience.

Pleading guilty or not guilty depends on what he wants to give importance. Pleading guilty will give Michelle's family closure. Because physically he did kill Michelle. The not guilty plea and proving that he is not in complete control of his mind and body during that specific time can acquit him. But can it give him closure and peace of mind? Knowing that a version of himself is guilty.
So I think even if it is unfair, it is right for him to plead guilty.