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What did you think about Samantha? I didn't like her at first, and was a bit put off by her, but grew to respect her toward the end. She wasn't as shallow as some of her friends, and she grew and changed with each cycle.

I didn't like Samantha at first because she reminded me of the mean girls in Junior High school, except she was just a follower. So, the bad things she did weren't even things that she cared about. I grew to like her once she realized how she had been behaving all along just to be popular. I think by the end she wouldn't be a bad person to know, but I don't think I could relate to her. I had different priorities at her age and we grew up very differently.

For me, Samantha isn't relatable at all. Never in my life have I been mean to someone just for the heck of it, or for the sake of being cool. I can admire the fact that she tried to do the right thing by Juliet and saved her in the end, but that alone didn't redeem her overall character in my opinion. And without her mean girl persona, she really didn't have any personality. Just my opinion, though.

I didn't find Sam relatable. She herself was taunted by Lindsay when she was younger so how could she willingly go along with Lindsay's super mean antics. She became so shallow once she hooked up with Lindsay, Elody, and Ally in high school. She was a follower in the worst type of way.

I can't relate, but I did feel like I knew girls like her that probably had their own stories for why they were the way that they were. I have never been able to understand girls like that though.

She might not be the most likeable person, but I think she is relateable. In Samantha, we see insecurity, a desire to be liked, and a teenaged self-centeredness that is more common than most people would like to admit. Whereas many people express these qualities in different ways (i.e., not through meanness), they are certainly very common. I was definitely NOT Samantha when I was in high school, but I think I can still relate to her through her emotions.

I worry if Sam might be intentionally hard to relate to because she herself didn't consider her own cruelty-by-following at first either. It's easy to say we wouldn't be like Sam when we use the power of looking at it from an outsider's perspective. But what about when we are on the inside, and the cruelty or following is not condemned by those around us but encouraged? What about when on the inside we are told what we are doing is "good" even though from the outside it looks like what many would "bad" or cruel?

History itself is filled with examples, the most cliche and overused being a certain time in German history. How could the majority of people go along with that? Not just allow it to happen but actively support it? I would never do that, we think.

Are we not capable of cruelty as long as its socially acceptable or encouraged?

Even today, what about the child slaves who make our shoes? What about the factory farmed animals we purchase? In a recent poll, a large percentage of people supported the bombing of Agrabah. Agrabah is not a real city. It's the fictional city from the movie Aladdin. If it was real city filled with real people, how quickly would us--full-grown adults--follow someone else's lead in delivering cruelty to those people because their city has a funny name? How different is that really than high school bullying? The people we call the "bad guys" even historically speaking didn't think of themselves as "bad guys" and would themselves probably say that they can't relate to "bad guys" or "bully's".

One thing I really like about this book, Before I Fall, is the very fact that the question of whether Samantha is relatable does not have an easy answer. We want to say no, but I think saying no itself is one big way the answer might actually be more of a yes.

Scott wrote:One thing I really like about this book, Before I Fall, is the very fact that the question of whether Samantha is relatable does not have an easy answer. We want to say no, but I think saying no itself is one big way the answer might actually be more of a yes.

Thanks for that addition, Scott. It seems like you put a lot of thought into your comment, and you really had some excellent things to say.

Scott, I agree with L_Therese. Your comments were thoughtful and the example of the Germans during WWII was spot on. When bad behavior is socially acceptable and encouraged, do the basic concepts of right and wrong get blurred in some people's minds? Teenagers sometimes go along with the crowd because they want to fit in and be liked. When the culture is that of other kids laughing at bullying comments and bad behavior (drinking, cutting class, cheating on tests), it becomes harder for teenagers to understand the different between right and wrong.

Scott wrote:I worry if Sam might be intentionally hard to relate to because she herself didn't consider her own cruelty-by-following at first either. It's easy to say we wouldn't be like Sam when we use the power of looking at it from an outsider's perspective. But what about when we are on the inside, and the cruelty or following is not condemned by those around us but encouraged? What about when on the inside we are told what we are doing is "good" even though from the outside it looks like what many would "bad" or cruel?

History itself is filled with examples, the most cliche and overused being a certain time in German history. How could the majority of people go along with that? Not just allow it to happen but actively support it? I would never do that, we think.

Are we not capable of cruelty as long as its socially acceptable or encouraged?

Even today, what about the child slaves who make our shoes? What about the factory farmed animals we purchase? In a recent poll, a large percentage of people supported the bombing of Agrabah. Agrabah is not a real city. It's the fictional city from the movie Aladdin. If it was real city filled with real people, how quickly would us--full-grown adults--follow someone else's lead in delivering cruelty to those people because their city has a funny name? How different is that really than high school bullying? The people we call the "bad guys" even historically speaking didn't think of themselves as "bad guys" and would themselves probably say that they can't relate to "bad guys" or "bully's".

One thing I really like about this book, Before I Fall, is the very fact that the question of whether Samantha is relatable does not have an easy answer. We want to say no, but I think saying no itself is one big way the answer might actually be more of a yes.

At first I was going to say that Samantha is not relatable to me, because I'm not at all similar to her. At least that was my opinion before I read Scott's post. He does indeed have a very valid point. A lot of the time we do things when it seems socially acceptable. At best I will say that I hope that I wouldn't be like her if I was in her shoes.

stoppoppingtheP wrote:At first I was going to say that Samantha is not relatable to me, because I'm not at all similar to her. At least that was my opinion before I read Scott's post. He does indeed have a very valid point. A lot of the time we do things when it seems socially acceptable. At best I will say that I hope that I wouldn't be like her if I was in her shoes.

I was mean to someone once in Junior High because other people were. However, I immediately felt really bad about it and helped them out with the thing I did. So, I can see why Samantha fell in with Lindsay and her lifestyle, but I can't relate with the continuation of it for so long.

Thimble wrote:

stoppoppingtheP wrote:At first I was going to say that Samantha is not relatable to me, because I'm not at all similar to her. At least that was my opinion before I read Scott's post. He does indeed have a very valid point. A lot of the time we do things when it seems socially acceptable. At best I will say that I hope that I wouldn't be like her if I was in her shoes.

I was mean to someone once in Junior High because other people were. However, I immediately felt really bad about it and helped them out with the thing I did. So, I can see why Samantha fell in with Lindsay and her lifestyle, but I can't relate with the continuation of it for so long.

I was exactly like that. There was this one girl that everybody used to make fun of. I never directly did something to her, but if somebody else did, I would laugh right along. I feel so bad about it now. I wish I could go back and change things, or at least apologize. I wish I knew enough then, to be able to stand up for the right thing and not succumb to peer pressure.

ashley_claire wrote:For me, Samantha isn't relatable at all. Never in my life have I been mean to someone just for the heck of it, or for the sake of being cool. I can admire the fact that she tried to do the right thing by Juliet and saved her in the end, but that alone didn't redeem her overall character in my opinion. And without her mean girl persona, she really didn't have any personality. Just my opinion, though.

I totally agree! Her choices to be mean (so unnecessarily mean!) were just ridiculous. And the way everything was always someone else's fault made her seem whiny on top of it all.

-- 08 Feb 2016, 15:50 --

Sam is not relatable to me at all. I tried to find myself in her, but there was just no room for anyone else in the personality she had. She was selfish and lost. When she wasn't just going along with the awful things her friends were doing, she was being annoying.

I found her relate-able because I knew girls similar to that in school. I didn't like her at first but as she started to realize her wrong doings and started to change I grew to like and respect her. The way she gave her life in the end, while anti-climatic, was admirable.