Women Characters as Spies

M Zee · Post by **M Zee** » 14 Feb 2019, 23:51

This is a really good question! It's all too often that character development can fall to the wayside of plot points in a book. While the plot around them was interesting, I think some of the female characters may have suffered from that lack in the novel.

NuelUkah · Post by **NuelUkah** » 15 Feb 2019, 12:03

briellejee wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 21:00
NuelUkah wrote: ↑14 Feb 2019, 20:57
I think the women were portrayed well. As a reader, sometimes, you try to ascertain the author's perspective. There were strong and thriving women, like Sarah and Badia. There were also lesser women who served as prostitutes, spies, etc. That is expected because in real life war, there are prostitutes, and soldiers like women. Women are strategic to the success of some missions. I think Kater did a good job placing the women in diverse roles.
Thank you for pointing this out! I have been saying the same thing over and over again in this post. As a reader, we don't get what we all want for the characters, but I really do think the author's incorporation of these women is not really a conclusion that the book is sexist or demeans women.

Yes, it doesn't demean women at all. It's just the role. As a matter of fact, if it weren't for those women, some of their missions would have been compromised. Also, the story would lack reality content.

hala-elnagy · Post by **hala-elnagy** » 15 Feb 2019, 17:35

I think women easily fool men. Thanks to the author who portrayed women as very strong. Also, I agree with what was said here that Yasmina was the most advanced and I hope to do more to make the characters evolve and shine more.

Londera · Post by **Londera** » 15 Feb 2019, 18:33

Most of the female characters were treated as disposable. This is consistent with most females who help spies portrayed in literature and film. They are used for their looks and feminine charm.

Mercelle · Post by **Mercelle** » 16 Feb 2019, 04:50

The story's setting makes it appropriate for the Germans and the main characters to use belly dancers and prostitutes as spies because they are inconspicuous. Although their line of work isn't respectable, the women are brave and took great risk to work as spies.

Nerea · Post by **Nerea** » 16 Feb 2019, 10:09

Personally, I think they were portrayed as independent and brave because not just any woman would do what they were doing, that is, drawing sensitive information from their German clients and bring to the spies. I'd say, they were the perfect bait to catch the fish.

labibliofile · Post by **labibliofile** » 16 Feb 2019, 13:24

Charlyt wrote: ↑03 Feb 2019, 10:36 In your opinion, how were the women portrayed in the story? The German spies used belly dancers like Yasmina and Fahmy, and our main characters used prostitutes like Fifi and Yvette, all to spy for their side's advantage.

Were the women portrayed to be independent and brave to be working as important assets to help win the war? Or were they depicted as easily manipulated and useful for their physical capabilities and characteristics?

Did you find them smart and fearless, or decietful and manipulative?

While I believe that it takes a lot of intelligence and bravery to get information, in my opinion they were merely viewed as a means to then end and that they could be easily manipulated and especially the fact that they had to use their physical capabilities to get information as most of them are prostitutes.

DakotaA · Post by **DakotaA** » 16 Feb 2019, 15:07

Women have been spies in wars for a very long time! I always find them fascinating and loved the idea of being a spy as a child. Now, as an adult, I cannot imagine how brave, smart, fearless, manipulative and deceitful a woman would have had to been all at once to be a spy when they were still seen as the "lesser" gender. So I guess my answer is all of the above!

kdstrack · Post by **kdstrack** » 18 Feb 2019, 07:46

The use of prostitutes as spies is historically accurate. Madame Badia could be based on Madame Schmidt who ran Salon Kitty.

DogoMulla · Post by **DogoMulla** » 18 Feb 2019, 16:58

The woman of today is totally unlike the woman of yesterday. Women are so much more involved, empowered and financially stable. That said, it makes so much sense Greg Kater created significant space for women spies. It serves both the author and the book right.

randompersonavility · Post by **randompersonavility** » 18 Feb 2019, 21:17

Well maybe not to portray as easy to manipulate but thy could've seen potential in these women to be spies after all not anyone can be a spy.

briellejee · Post by **briellejee** » 18 Feb 2019, 21:53

Shielasshi_93 wrote: ↑18 Feb 2019, 21:17 Well maybe not to portray as easy to manipulate but thy could've seen potential in these women to be spies after all not anyone can be a spy.

Yes! Not anyone can be a spy! These women were not only chosen to be just a belly dancer or prostitute. I'm glad that you said this, proving the point I'm trying to say here over and over again.

briellejee · Post by **briellejee** » 18 Feb 2019, 21:55

DogoMulla wrote: ↑18 Feb 2019, 16:58 The woman of today is totally unlike the woman of yesterday. Women are so much more involved, empowered and financially stable. That said, it makes so much sense Greg Kater created significant space for women spies. It serves both the author and the book right.

This is true! I have been saying that readers should take note of the timeline and the setting. Women now might be enraged, yes we should be, but it was set in a time where women can't even be in war zones. It is a good thing for the author to make them spies.

Rose Harebate · Post by **Rose Harebate** » 19 Feb 2019, 07:40

In my opinion, these women were smart and used what they are good at to win the war.

CatlynnHighlights · Post by **CatlynnHighlights** » 19 Feb 2019, 20:57

BelleReadsNietzsche wrote: ↑03 Feb 2019, 17:18 This is a theme I notice more and more as I get older, and don't necessarily see improving in many of the newer books released. And my patience with it is a lot thinner than it used to be. Women as "strong" is great but it seems to be a substitute for women as people, especially among male authors. I agree with the comments made here about Yasmina, Fahmy, Fifi, and Yvette.

That being said, I wasn't necessarily expecting much since historical fiction war books written by men tend to be really terrible at this, and I enjoyed this book much more than I thought I would. But I think its a weakness in this book and in the genre, and I'm kind of sick of excusing it. (And I'm torn about that because many otherwise good books have that as a flaw, and I'm never sure how harsh its fair to be about it.)

I strongly agree! In novels like this, women seem to have to make a choice. They can be "strong" as you said, or "people," or what I like to call a "fairytale." Fairytales are basically the epitome of a fairytale princess: can't lift a finger, doesn't make important decisions, needs someone to save her, etc. It's such a rarity to find books where female characters don't have to make this choice because it's such a norm. I don't dock points anymore, although I used to. Instead, I add points to those books that have managed to avoid it.