Commas and other "internationalisms"

[Emma Ussel]

Hi,

Some "commas corrections" by editors of reviews seem to forget English does not have an actual ruling body such as L'Académie Française to dictate these rules. I tend to write US standard, and while I'm alright with points being taken off by an actual grammar error or typo (it happens!), I don't appreciate some "I would have written it differently" corrections...

As such, I always get points taken of because either I use or don't use the Oxford comma, or tend to put a comma (like this previous one) to mark a pause in a longer sentence.


Examples:

(mine) There are also a few moments in which the author diverges from the core idea, by talking about a near death experience for instance.
(editor) There are also a few moments in which the author diverges from the core idea, by talking about a near-death experience, for instance.

(mine) The book is over 600 pages with historical pictures illustrating them.
(editor) The book is over 600 pages, with historical pictures illustrating them.

(mine) There are the memoirs of an ambassador who was an Algerian freedom fighter and a thousand other things after all!
(editor) There are the memoirs of an ambassador who was an Algerian freedom fighter, among a thousand other things after all!

I'm not saying "their version is wrong and my version is better", some of these corrections are indeed better, but "my version is not wrong, it shouldn't be marked down"... Am I wrong?

[Samantha Green Tolson]

You are speaking my language! I've been getting points taken off for the same thing. What bothers me about it is that we can't treat a book the same way according to the guidelines. I think the same rules should be used for both!

I write how I speak. If I take a pause in speaking, I add a comma. If I combine two different thoughts into one sentence, I add a semi-colon. Grammar does matter, but the rules should be uniform across the board.

I also think that we should get one rewrite per review! Even professional reviewers get a chance to edit. If you decide not to rewrite it, then the points should be taken off. If need be, make it for lower levels only. If your level is 5 or below you get a chance to rewrite. Either way, the newer reviewers need some grace!

[Emma Ussel]

It happened again

As an experienced financial advisor, Fleischauer directs his focus towards those considering retirement, presenting a wealth of invaluable information and insights, encompassing topics ranging from income protection and disability insurance policies to career assessments, retirement planning, life insurance(,) and investments.

Oxford Comma. Decide, or just don't correct commas if you're going to be asinine about it. Or you need to request a very specific type of review writing style, but that would take away from the genuine opinions and diverse voices of your readers.

I also get slack from borderline/non-borderline profanity. We do not all live under the squeaky clean "think of the children!!" gated communities some people seem to live in. If the book is intended for mature audiences, just list out if it contains actual slurs rather than what most people use, hear, and see on a daily basis.

I do think a chance at correcting typos need to be given too (it happens to everyone), but some people need to knock it off as if there was a Deciding Body of What is Correct English.
The role of an editor is to help you edit the text. If you can't edit the text with the actual helpful comments ("this would be better phrased as.." "this might be better with an adverb"), then call them "guidelines checkers" or "quality judges".

Hell, some grammar aren't even much of a problem (("there's cats", "where's the kittens?" is vernacularly correct, but not correct in terms of pure grammar). English does not have a ruling body to actually decide such things. It's a true living language, and our vernacular evolves and integrates changes as they're being adopted by its speakers, either in small or large communities (looking at you, AAVE being appropriated and spread).
This is why US now spells "September" instead of "Septembre". Initially this was a misspelling error since Americans spelled things as they pronounced them, instead of using the actual proper spelling. Aisling became Ashley too.

So yeah, please, editors, calm down with the commas and punctuation when it's commonly used enough to appear in printed press. English has always been three rascals in a trench coat mugging other languages for grammar, vocabulary and some spelling quirks.

[Diana Lowery]

Vonnie33
Regarding Oxford commas:
Ask for a recheck, provide a source to prove this is not an error, the editor will be warned. After three warnings, the editor will be removed as an editor.
If the editor does not admit the mistake, ask for an admin recheck.

[Emma Ussel]

Diana, thank you very much for your reply, but every time I do a recheck saying "commas aren't mistakes," it takes from my recheck requests limit (and I only have like, 3 left total), and when I do request a recheck I am often shut down by said editors saying "nope".
As for the source, what source can I provide?
English does not have a Real Academia Española or an Académie Française as a deciding body (not that these things are good, mind you as both a French and Spanish speaker, I have my issues with national institutions deciding what is the proper language, ignoring how the language is spoken in other countries...). I can only say "this way of writing is commonly used, and since speakers make the living language..." for many of these things. Please see the examples above. Should I go and find in newspapers or scientific journals the same type of punctuation? That seems like a lot of work because someone doesn't like people using commas for pauses or actual plain old Oxford commas (or, on the contrary, does like it when I don't use them for once!).

Is there a way to just remove punctuation from the removal of points, unless it's a true comprehension problem? Or a typography problem (space before a comma or period...).

I will request checks until I run out of them, but it also seems like a lot of work on everyone just to fight about commas, especially when we can't actually "chat" with the editor who marked me down about that "mistake" to fully defend one's choice (when they themselves don't explain precisely why they think this comma should be added or removed).

Thanks again for replying!

[Diana Lowery]

I was only responding to the Oxford comma error that you posted. Editors are not allowed to mark those as errors. Asking for a recheck will not lower your total because the editor is wrong. You can cite this source: https://forums.onlinebookclub.org/viewt ... 2&t=130072
If the editor does not change your score, you should appeal to an administrator, who will agree with you. Again, your total number of rechecks will not be affected.

[Emma Ussel]

Perfect, thank you very much for the clarification!

[a1coder]

Your concern about editors making stylistic changes that might not necessarily be grammatically incorrect is quite valid. The use of commas can sometimes be a matter of style preference rather than strict grammatical rules, especially when it comes to elements like the Oxford comma and using commas to indicate pauses in longer sentences.

In your example, both versions are grammatically correct, but they represent different styles of writing:

Your Version: "There are also a few moments in which the author diverges from the core idea, by talking about a near-death experience for instance."

Editor's Version: "There are also a few moments in which the author diverges from the core idea, by talking about a near-death experience, for instance."

[Diana Lowery]

Your concern about editors making stylistic changes that might not necessarily be grammatically incorrect is quite valid. The use of commas can sometimes be a matter of style preference rather than strict grammatical rules, especially when it comes to elements like the Oxford comma and using commas to indicate pauses in longer sentences.

In your example, both versions are grammatically correct, but they represent different styles of writing:

Your Version: "There are also a few moments in which the author diverges from the core idea, by talking about a near-death experience for instance."

Editor's Version: "There are also a few moments in which the author diverges from the core idea, by talking about a near-death experience, for instance."

Yes, you are correct, which is why you must provide a valid source to support your claim when you ask for a recheck. I doubt you will find any style guide that states "put in a comma to indicate a pause" but if you can, the editor will restore your points. and you won't lose your recheck option. Editors also have to support their claims when challenged. If they don't, they will receive a warning. It is a fair system of checks and balances.

[a1coder]

Your concern about editors making stylistic changes that might not necessarily be grammatically incorrect is quite valid. The use of commas can sometimes be a matter of style preference rather than strict grammatical rules, especially when it comes to elements like the Oxford comma and using commas to indicate pauses in longer sentences.

In your example, both versions are grammatically correct, but they represent different styles of writing:

Your Version: "There are also a few moments in which the author diverges from the core idea, by talking about a near-death experience for instance."

Editor's Version: "There are also a few moments in which the author diverges from the core idea, by talking about a near-death experience, for instance."

Yes, you are correct, which is why you must provide a valid source to support your claim when you ask for a recheck. I doubt you will find any style guide that states "put in a comma to indicate a pause" but if you can, the editor will restore your points. and you won't lose your recheck option. Editors also have to support their claims when challenged. If they don't, they will receive a warning. It is a fair system of checks and balances.

Absolutely, you've made some excellent points. Providing reliable sources to back up our claims is crucial, especially when requesting a recheck. It ensures that the editing process maintains its integrity and fairness. I completely understand your perspective on the need for evidence-based adjustments.

[Emma Ussel]

Your concern about editors making stylistic changes that might not necessarily be grammatically incorrect is quite valid. The use of commas can sometimes be a matter of style preference rather than strict grammatical rules, especially when it comes to elements like the Oxford comma and using commas to indicate pauses in longer sentences.

In your example, both versions are grammatically correct, but they represent different styles of writing:

Your Version: "There are also a few moments in which the author diverges from the core idea, by talking about a near-death experience for instance."

Editor's Version: "There are also a few moments in which the author diverges from the core idea, by talking about a near-death experience, for instance."

Yes, you are correct, which is why you must provide a valid source to support your claim when you ask for a recheck. I doubt you will find any style guide that states "put in a comma to indicate a pause" but if you can, the editor will restore your points. and you won't lose your recheck option. Editors also have to support their claims when challenged. If they don't, they will receive a warning. It is a fair system of checks and balances.

I do write out "I used the comma here to indicate a pause, or on the contrary didn't put the comma to fasten the pace of my short sentence" (and linked a couple of examples) but it wasn't always taken into account.

I ended up doing an admin appeal on one of my rejected reviews (the review itself was bad, but I had contested specifically for the comma "mistakes"). Again, I didn't request an admin check to accept the review or to contest the other valid points, but specifically for the "correction of a comma" situation, as per Diana's advice, but the admin failed to see that since I obviously couldn't tell them "yeah I agree with X and Y and it's fine if the review stays rejected, but please give me back my comma points". So I lost that admin appeal privilege.

How do we appeal an admin recheck ? Because clearly this seems to be a problem, especially when I keep getting points taken regardless whether I put or remove some of those pause-commas due to link-words being present (or absent...).

Again, English doesn't have a Royal Academy, just "usually established practices and jurisprudence" which evolve over type, mutate, have regional or community quirks. I beg for the team to just remove commas from being something editors need to check unless they're a sort, of typo, (like these two ones).