Rap

[Kilgore-trout]

No offense taken Greco.

Sophius now you're just prolonging the hostile argument...

[El_greco]

...blah blah...

Kid, if you would at least try and reread your post, you would see you didn't back it with no theoretical knowledge, or knowledge whatsoever. Especially when talking about ideology.

Yes, the slums are a necessary product of the suburbian Bach lifestyle. It simply cannot exist without the exploitation of the type happening in the US and all over the world. If you would read any sociological studies about it, you would see it also. This way you're only selling us humanitarian uthopia.

And when talking about you being ideologicaly determined; if you would read, and actually read, not selectively read excerpts, you'd see that for every statement against the use of curse words, apllying them, living the sex, drugs & rock'n'roll lifestyle etc. i could just ask you why, and you would come to a dead end very soon. Come to think of it, the best or actually the ONLY argument you have written up in your post is that it IS FOWL. Dude, seriously? Is that the best you can do? It is fowl? It can only be fowl to a person who's been indoctrinated into a judeo-christian pragmatic philosophy full of humanitarianism as the only paradigm of existence. Or, in other words, you are taught that it is correct. And you stick by it. That's it.



I said you'll figure it out, because you will. We were all 14 and we all thought we knew everything while in puberty.
I didn't change my post because of your age, but because i agreed to do so because not everybody here feels the same way as myself and isn't as temperamental as myself. And yes, i had to take it easy and i did change my view of you because you're fourteen, because now, i think you're a kid who's intelectually superior to his puberty-driven peers, and who's trying to define himself. If you were 45 f.ex., i'd just think you're plain stupid. Not trying to sound arrogant, but you have to go through everything that i went, since i'm almost a decade older than you. Even Aristotle would define you as a person who isn't even close to seeing the truth (not that i do).


Intelectually superior? You really constructed that?

/facepalm on

urgh

/facepalm off


You are superior to your peers. The only thing you have proven here is that you don't actually know a first thing about rap (you are constantly proving it by only partially analizing it by the idiots served to you by the mass media. You disqualified yourself with that.), and that you are very very verrry eloquent. And the second is not really an advantage, since you are talking to a guy who's native tongue is not english.








P.S.: Over the years, when you get some highschool knowledge of history and sociology, and when you read something more than Stephen King, you'll see that the social cast of people who listened to classical music, which i also enjoy, never did anything and only continuously reproduced the exploiter-exploited corelation. They occasionally organized some tea-parties. The real revolution always came from vulga (latin for common people i think. So vulgarities are the expressions used in everyday language by the common people. The standardized meta-vulgarities free language is the language of the elite. ). It came from the lower classes up. Vulga ended the exploitation of the Romanov family, beheaded Louis XVI etc. And vulga is the intelectual force creating in Punk, Rock, Rap, since most of them never had access to the elite folklore where classical music, despite it's aesthetic perfection, always played an integral part. And it was always their voices fighting against the opression.

For instance, look at this crackhead:

Mos Def was taken into custody and charged with disorderly conduct Thursday night after an unauthorized performance outside Radio City Music Hall during the Video Music Awards, police confirmed to MTV News. He was released early Friday (September 1) morning.

According to authorities, the rapper pulled up in front of the venue in a flatbed truck at around 10 p.m. for an impromptu show for the people gathered outside. An NYPD spokesperson said officers asked Mos Def and members of his entourage to shut down their operation due to crowd conditions and the overall safety of everyone involved.


It wasn't clear whether Mos Def (real name: Dante Smith) ignored or refused the orders, the police spokesperson continued.

Sources close to the rapper said Mos Def was performing "Katrina Clap," a freestyle indictment of the Bush administration's slow response to last year's hurricane victims in New Orleans.

Just one for instance. Not even trying to dig out the number of arrests of vulgar crackheads fighting the opression in the seventies.


If you wouldn't just quasi intelecutally puristicly slandered in your opening post, this debate might be about why hiphop, even the, believe it or not, quantity-superior quality rap isn't as close to a revolutionary movement, fighting for the emancipation of the opressed. Why is it all just aesthetics and no more resistance/fight. Why is it, despite the performative quality and even instrumental progressivness (more and more artists with live bands, trippy futuristic producers etc.), unbelievably passive and lethargic.

But no. It's just fowl. Even if you don't know a first thing about it. And that's a fact.




I'll do myself a favour, and ignore your posts from now on, since they are nothing but a content-free eloquent shell. Or you could atleast try to understand what i'm saying and not try to be a know-it-all, just as i would try to understand you writing why Stephen King is superior to Stoker. Or sth like that.


But no. Let's be "intelectually superior" without no background knowledge whatsoever.



Now please, be intelectually superior, i promise i will stick to the topic and that you will have the last say in this debate. I'll rather spend my time listening to crackheads.

[BookWorm617]

...

Fourteen? Seriously?

Well, if you really are fourteen, i must admit you are quite progressive for your age. But:


If you would know a first thing about ideology and theory of ideology, you would know that your kind of discourse is ideologically "proposed".

To prove my point, try answering WHY is using curse words bad? The only possible answers whatsoever are always similar, and always relate to the phrase "It's not civil." For something to become widely accepted and appreciated as "civil", it must be regarded as something "normal". To be regarded normal, it must be ideologically proposed, written somewhere and decided by the elite as a norm of behaviour. You are then taught this norm at home, in schools etc. It is something you take for granted. Without even knowing any other answer than "it's civil". You are simply taught that way, and that's it. No other reason. And the thing is, the people who imposed that kind of social norms were mostly the elite (people who listen to classical music, sit in their armchairs smoking cigars, enjoying quality wine and thinking how they are building the world. + they are being civil ) From you're point of view Salinger, Bukowski, Hemingway do not deserved to be called writers, plus the destruction of Twain's zeitgeist lingo in the new edition of Huckleberry Finn is something that should be done, just so the people could easily conform and read it. That's just wrong.

You are conforming in a way, that you're acting like an elitist described above. The crackhead/slut/criminal behaviour is nothing more than a reaction of the exploited to your type of behaviour, which was ideologicaly impregnated. It's a norm you were taught to live. You simply judge/generalize/slander someone or something just because they do not conform to your behavioral patterns. And your patterns are not nearly the only existent or the correct ones. Your type of smug behaviour is not the axis mundi, and the US foreign policy f.e. is trying to make it an axis mundi, and that's why everything you stand for and what you have written above, especially the way it was written and lack of content it has, is the core of elitism, the moving mechanism that creates your foreign policy that's the reason why the rest of the world does not like you. It's a stereotypical behaviour of everything that's wrong with America. I love the Seattle rebels, Nirvana, Sage Francis, Pearl Jam, X-Clan, Catcher in the Rye /i could go on forever/ America. You are not that. You have proven so. Except if you have severe double-standards. Than that's your problem. You generalize something without even knowing anything about it, when the names are properly given to you, you don't even bother to check them out. That's conforming. Exclusivity to your type of brainwashed elitistical life. Everything else is crackheads/sluts/whores.

There are only two ways your "tender youth" got violent.
1. They had a great example of violence at home.
2. They had stuck up narrow minded parents who smuthered them, so they resorted to reaction. In no way rap music created them the way they are. f**k up parents did. Read some Lacan, Jung, Kropotkin...

Calling me a communist and thinking that's an insult is just a great example of a lingo of an ideologically (capitalisticly) conformed person, It's obvious you don't have any elementary knowledge about communism, except what you've been taught by the media, who referred to any type of non-conforming person as a communist. I say THANK YOU. And i mean it. + I could see how nice you guys felt being communists by taking taxpayers money to fund the banks who's only purpose is to endebt the population as much as possible, so that you don't even own yourself further down the line. Elitistic American, capitalists, are nothing more than selective communists, who hate communists. wat. propaganda, nothing more.

And you might not like what's happening in the "slums", but it's a neccesary side effect of living the life you guys live, listening to Bach in the suburbs :l

I had a lot longer and sharper post, but i talked it over with StephenKingMan, and decided to take this route, since i am not the only one on this board, and i don't have the right to be so egotistical and temperament. But you have shown the level of brainwashing i hope i'll never reach the heights of.

But still, you're only fourteen, you'll figure it out.



In anyway the capitalist elitistical and cultural exclusivity is going on my ignore list. I won't respond to your content-non-existing pamphlets full of populistic stupidities. Especially when you say the artists don't say anyting and that their rhyming is ridiculous. Yes, what a great content-filled well-argumented background . I guess you also think that slam poets should be banned.





@Fran - It's not exactly Baudelaire, but hey, you can't say that stuff is not poetry.




or do you?

I completely agree with you!! You've said exactly what I would have said just much more eloquently. I like all music, rap being one of them. I grew up listening to Wu-Tang, Biggie, Mos Def, Jay-Z etc. Some people are ignorant and make their judgements based on a few examples. I also agree with you that raps lyrics can be very poetic, this is true with DMX imo.

[Kilgore-trout]

y'all gonna make me lose my mind, up in here up in here...

[El_greco]

y'all gonna make me lose my mind, up in here up in here...

touché

edit:

Sadistik feat. Mac Lethal - Ashes to Ashley

For every hole I've punched in the wall
Every piece of paper crumbled as we've suffer in the bloodiest fall
For every pulsating ego blistered into moon ripe nosebleeds
I nurse these festering wounds and drop no seeds
but grow an orchid garden
Now the pains on your portrait hardens with a face that resorts to jargon
Scribbled like a suicide note
Like I'll stop
I show the beauty by a profile shot
Freeze, don't fret for the truth
Cause I'll pray till I heard footsteps on the roof
I swear to god I don't believe in angels
Ask me, atheist, ashly
Where's the wings in this relationship
Passions has passed me, cast another spell
Mortified, melancholy, Madness to Michelle
Suicide Sarah, illiterate your fate, worship the absence, and demonstrate my faith
(Face in the mirror on my bathroom door
I saw her dance in rain in the summer downpour)
I saw her dance till the rain put the fire out
Burned at the steak, Joan of Arc little anxious saint
I illustrate the gates of hell into my notebook her flesh burns up in the furnace
Ashes to Ashley
Urns to something earnest
I slit my wrist and curse with an ink pen
Write a revelation, burn a stack of bibles
question my faith, get my churlish ass to smile
Find another suttel piece of confidence to muster
Her ministry echoes in this monolithic structure
Cremate the dieing Christmas trees
The winter is full of bitter, ashy, black blizzards
And when the superstition delivered
And it came down the chimney they found her in the fire place with me
Ashes to Ashley

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfiyF62konU - the song

[Marto]

TS, nice picks there. Cannibal Ox really blew me away and Vast Aire instantaneously became my favorite rapper. Look Mom No Hands was pretty good but he kind of fell after Cold Vein. Masai Bey is who I'm listening too now.

____________________
resume service

[Rock17945]

as a old school guy ... rap doesn't mean the same anymore .. it all about materialistic stuff . music that doesn't mean anything . it just keep falling into lies , sex , drugs , haters , etc .little by little i'm trying to draw far from it .

[Kilgore-trout]

as a old school guy ... rap doesn't mean the same anymore .. it all about materialistic stuff . music that doesn't mean anything . it just keep falling into lies , sex , drugs , haters , etc .little by little i'm trying to draw far from it .

unfortunately that's all music nowadays

[El_greco]

TS, nice picks there. Cannibal Ox really blew me away and Vast Aire instantaneously became my favorite rapper. Look Mom No Hands was pretty good but he kind of fell after Cold Vein. Masai Bey is who I'm listening too now.

Yeah, i like CO also. I'd say they both VA and Vordul fell after Cold Vein. But still they're better then 95% of quasi rappers.

Didn't listen to Masai Bei yet, thanks for the heads up.
Migthy Joseph record is quite listenable though.


next:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H69PoZWNgzE


and this:

http://fora.tv/2009/12/07/Homeric_Hip-H ... t_Is_Fresh

[Zekes]

For me, Rap and hiphop are not a disgusting song and I don't see any reason for us to say that. I know their lyrics maybe over rated or a bit straightforward but I think its because it's what the composer of the feel or think when he's making that song.

[Timpane]

The heritage behind this "music" is barely better, as the portrayers of it are often sluts and lawless individuals, which turns the highly susceptible teenager(and numerous adults) into uncouth, hormone propelled curs. I find myself nauseated and outraged every time I'm compelled to hear to it and I am rather exhausted of having to deal with it

[Jacob]

Why is everyone arguing?

This thread is here for the people who actually LIKE it, if you don't like it don't waste your keyboard typing, just simply don't click on the topic, or post.

Yes, I will admit. I do not like the overall appeal of Rap, but that's just my opinion, doesn't need to cause insults or hatred.

[Sophius]

The heritage behind this "music" is barely better, as the portrayers of it are often sluts and lawless individuals, which turns the highly susceptible teenager(and numerous adults) into uncouth, hormone propelled curs. I find myself nauseated and outraged every time I'm compelled to hear to it and I am rather exhausted of having to deal with it

Why did you basically copy what I previously said? If you cannot formulate your own opinion and express it in your own way, you should not express an opinion at all.

And by the way, using compelled in the context that you do implies that you listen to rap music by choice, instead of being forced to listen to it, which makes no sense(unless your one of those people who listen to something they don't like just so they can complain about it.)

[VerdeMar]

My favourite rappers are Sick Since and Valete(portuguese).

[El_greco]

nice picks.

I'd actually like to hear some more portuguese rap, got any more suggestions?