Views on Immigration

Use this forum to discuss the March 2018 Book of the Month, "Final Notice" by Van Fleisher.
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innah96
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Re: Views on Immigration

Post by innah96 »

As a person born from Macedonia, that moved to the UK, I will tell you what I think on this.

In Macedonia, we have people with all sorts of different cultures. Apart from the Macedonians, there are Albanians, Turks, Romans, Bulgarians, Bosnians, Serbians etc. etc. All of them have different religions - Christian (ortodox), Christian (catholic), Muslim...
People have somehow learned to live together, but there are and always will be provocations, issues, attacks and what not.

At the moment, Macedonia is on the way of becoming a two-language country (Macedonian/Albanian), which is something that I don't agree with at all.
It is getting hard now for Macedonians to get jobs, because people would prefer hiring an Albanian person, just because that person has a 1+ advantage on a language.

On the other side, there is the UK, which is struggling with a lot of foreigners coming to the country. One of which is, well, me.
There is no discrimination at all, and people can get jobs easily if they have the knowledge and experience needed. I have managed to find a wonderful job and climb the ladder, despite my nationality, and the fact that English is not my main language.

Please let me know what you think, and ask me anything, I am happy to answer :)
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Post by Jkhorner »

mamalui wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 23:38 From my understanding, immigrants are the ones that do the jobs that no one wants to do. But everything in moderation and doing background checks for criminal activities can go a long way to ensure peace.
I think I agree with this sentiment the most. I'm all for allowing people to come to the United States -- they may even be the people our country needs to help find solutions for our homeless and poverty stricken! However, I believe people must be evaluated on an individual basis. I don't care where they are from or what their religious beliefs (unless those beliefs allow them to harm others unpunished), I want to know when people arrive in America that they are willing to abide by American laws and live in a way that furthers the country rather than depends upon its people for livelihood.
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mamalui
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Post by mamalui »

Jkhorner wrote: 05 Mar 2018, 09:39
mamalui wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 23:38 From my understanding, immigrants are the ones that do the jobs that no one wants to do. But everything in moderation and doing background checks for criminal activities can go a long way to ensure peace.
I think I agree with this sentiment the most. I'm all for allowing people to come to the United States -- they may even be the people our country needs to help find solutions for our homeless and poverty stricken! However, I believe people must be evaluated on an individual basis. I don't care where they are from or what their religious beliefs (unless those beliefs allow them to harm others unpunished), I want to know when people arrive in America that they are willing to abide by American laws and live in a way that furthers the country rather than depends upon its people for livelihood.
Absolutely... :wink2:
No idea is a bad idea.

Life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans.
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Post by melissy370 »

innah96 wrote: 05 Mar 2018, 08:49 As a person born from Macedonia, that moved to the UK, I will tell you what I think on this.

In Macedonia, we have people with all sorts of different cultures. Apart from the Macedonians, there are Albanians, Turks, Romans, Bulgarians, Bosnians, Serbians etc. etc. All of them have different religions - Christian (ortodox), Christian (catholic), Muslim...
People have somehow learned to live together, but there are and always will be provocations, issues, attacks and what not.

At the moment, Macedonia is on the way of becoming a two-language country (Macedonian/Albanian), which is something that I don't agree with at all.
It is getting hard now for Macedonians to get jobs, because people would prefer hiring an Albanian person, just because that person has a 1+ advantage on a language.

On the other side, there is the UK, which is struggling with a lot of foreigners coming to the country. One of which is, well, me.
There is no discrimination at all, and people can get jobs easily if they have the knowledge and experience needed. I have managed to find a wonderful job and climb the ladder, despite my nationality, and the fact that English is not my main language.

Please let me know what you think, and ask me anything, I am happy to answer :)

Thanks for sharing about your home country. I have to admit I don't know much about Macedonia. Why would Albanians be in your country so much that they would change the national language?
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innah96
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Post by innah96 »

melissy370 wrote: 05 Mar 2018, 11:18
innah96 wrote: 05 Mar 2018, 08:49 As a person born from Macedonia, that moved to the UK, I will tell you what I think on this.

In Macedonia, we have people with all sorts of different cultures. Apart from the Macedonians, there are Albanians, Turks, Romans, Bulgarians, Bosnians, Serbians etc. etc. All of them have different religions - Christian (ortodox), Christian (catholic), Muslim...
People have somehow learned to live together, but there are and always will be provocations, issues, attacks and what not.

At the moment, Macedonia is on the way of becoming a two-language country (Macedonian/Albanian), which is something that I don't agree with at all.
It is getting hard now for Macedonians to get jobs, because people would prefer hiring an Albanian person, just because that person has a 1+ advantage on a language.

On the other side, there is the UK, which is struggling with a lot of foreigners coming to the country. One of which is, well, me.
There is no discrimination at all, and people can get jobs easily if they have the knowledge and experience needed. I have managed to find a wonderful job and climb the ladder, despite my nationality, and the fact that English is not my main language.

Please let me know what you think, and ask me anything, I am happy to answer :)

Thanks for sharing about your home country. I have to admit I don't know much about Macedonia. Why would Albanians be in your country so much that they would change the national language?

Honestly, I am not sure why they would be here. They are about 20% of the whole population. There are laws though, of which I don't agree with, and it makes it a requirement for a company to have a certain percentage of Albanians employed, to prevent discrimination. In my opinion, such rule shouldn't exist - there shouldn't be any discrimination, but people need to be employed by their knowledge and experience, not because we lack one person of this nationality, and we will discard all other nationalities. So it turns out that, in order to not make discrimination - we discriminate. *mind blown*

They just somehow managed to cut into the system and make it work for them, and after a long time, this happens.

BIG NOTE: I have nothing against the nation, or the Albanians themselves. I have many great friends there that I love as my siblings. I am just angry at the system.
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Post by Joy2thenations »

CatInTheHat wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 21:36 If we continue to allow Canadians and people from Western Europe to immigrate here, then we need to allow people from Syria, Iraq, Mexico, etc to immigrate here. Actually, less of Canada and Western Europe, as they aren't typically seeking a safer home.

I think we need both. All these folks have the ability to bring skills and jobs to our nation. What we need is to have a selection process that is clearly defined and works. Frankly, I think the immigration system is broken because other systems ofnour Government are broken. These elements do not work independently of one another.
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Post by jennyd2003 »

I think immigration is great with proper background checks to look for red flags. If they pass then let them come and live here legally. The ones causing the problems usually do not come in legally. I also agree that we need to look at our homeless situation as to how many immigrants we could safely let in and support with our resources. If we don't have the resources to support them then we should limit them as we look for ways to increase our resources if possible. There should not be a bigger worry over which peoples can come in based on where they are from instead of do they really want to be here and want to actively participate in our society. If the answer is yes then let them come if we can sustain them..
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Post by Catherine Hsu »

I am definitely for legal immigration and I feel like the author did a great job of addressing this topic. It really sucks that a select few have given all Muslim immigrants a bad name, but I think that's one of society's problems - that we all generalize too much. Nevertheless, I understand why people think we should take care of "our" people first, but I also feel like it's not right to turn away people who may really need help.
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Post by Lincolnshirelass »

This is a UK viewpoint. I think there should be some control, wisely and compassionately operated, and with no prejudice or populism, about immigration, but that refugees fleeing persecution or even death are another matter and we have a moral duty to care for them. Some of my own antecedents fled Nazi Germany because of political persecution.
An Eye for an Eye only ends up making the whole world blind.

Mahatma Gandhi
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Post by Mouricia Allen »

While I understand some persons concern about immigrants, keep in mind that many of the 'didn't jobs that natives don't want to do, immigrants complete them. So don't be fooled by the few immigrants who occupy high end jobs..
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Post by Sharon Myles »

I think immigration should be allowed inspite of the religion the immigrants subscribes to. Issues that affect a nation will always be there and blocking immigrants will not solve the problem.
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Post by kfwilson6 »

DancingLady wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 17:23 I think the biggest real issue with immigration (not considering mere opinions here) is our current resources and needs. I understand why some people oppose immigrants of a certain background, but there is no such thing as risk free immigration no matter what, and I think proper background checks should be adequate to deal with those concerns. We do certainly have limited resources, as does every other nation, so we can't reasonably let everyone in who wants to come in expect to be able to meet their needs in the settling process. My opinion is that we should give priority to those whose lives are in danger in their home country. Rasha's story illustrates an example of why some people are trying so hard to immigrate, they literally don't expect to survive long in their current situation do to war. We also have people fleeing drug wars in Central America who are in the same position, literally not expecting to be able to stay alive unless they can escape. I personally feel we should put the resources we have toward helping those people who are fleeing for their lives rather than those who just want more opportunities unless we have enough to adequately accommodate both.
This post really helped me to sort out my own feelings. I completely understand those who say we should be helping the people we already have here before committing resources to more people wanting to come in. But they way you broke it down really hit me. My desire to allow immigrants to come in, no matter where from, is because they can't help the situation they were born in to. How can we criticize anyone who just wants the security of physical safety? Rasha and Qasim's situations, in Syria and in the US, were the parts of the book that brought tears to my eyes. I think it is sometimes a death sentence to deny people entry into the US.
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Post by Libs_Books »

kfwilson6 wrote: 06 Mar 2018, 09:26 My desire to allow immigrants to come in, no matter where from, is because they can't help the situation they were born in to. How can we criticize anyone who just wants the security of physical safety? Rasha and Qasim's situations, in Syria and in the US, were the parts of the book that brought tears to my eyes. I think it is sometimes a death sentence to deny people entry into the US.
I think this is a great point. Many 'western' powers, including Britain and the USA need to look hard at their foreign policies to see whether they're helping to make the world a better, safer place, or more ugly and dangerous. We also need to address environmental degradation and the gap between rich and poor. People who have no water or no food may also have to move to another area, just as much as those in direct physical danger.
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Post by Irene C »

The issue with halting immigration in order to focus on domestic problems and populations that need help is that those problems and vulnerable populations are helped with the resources that a growing economy generates. Economic growth, especially in a consumer-driven developed economy, comes from growth in population size and productivity increases. So more people working (immigrants are more likely to be employed than the native-born) and spending their earnings as consumers equals more growth and therefore more tax revenue to deal with problems like homelessness among the native-born. A stagnating economy does the opposite.

Immigrants also go into different niches and corners of the economy than native-born people. Sometimes doing "work the native-born won't do", and other times creating new areas of activity. I heard of a Nepali refugee who was resettled in Houston who got a loan to open a shop for traditional Nepali clothing to import and sell to the Nepali refugee community. That's work that wasn't there before; that's growth. So the economic case for immigration is pretty clear.

In terms of culture the picture is more complicated, but I think a model of integration works best. The immigrants adapt to their new country and the country adapts to them.
History is not a burden on the memory but an illumination of the soul. Lord Acton
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Post by kfwilson6 »

Libs_Books wrote: 06 Mar 2018, 13:20
kfwilson6 wrote: 06 Mar 2018, 09:26 My desire to allow immigrants to come in, no matter where from, is because they can't help the situation they were born in to. How can we criticize anyone who just wants the security of physical safety? Rasha and Qasim's situations, in Syria and in the US, were the parts of the book that brought tears to my eyes. I think it is sometimes a death sentence to deny people entry into the US.
I think this is a great point. Many 'western' powers, including Britain and the USA need to look hard at their foreign policies to see whether they're helping to make the world a better, safer place, or more ugly and dangerous. We also need to address environmental degradation and the gap between rich and poor. People who have no water or no food may also have to move to another area, just as much as those in direct physical danger.
Absolutely. When I said "physical safety" I also had in mind access to clean water and enough healthy food options. It could even go so far as environmental factors like radiation. Anything that causes physical harm. Fleisher emphasized political environments but there is so much more that people need to be saved from. I am no scientist but I believe there are enough resources on our planet to provide for every person and the more developed countries are failing if they are not working to make that happen and making reasonable progress toward it.
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