Does it matter that little Tony is black?

Use this forum to discuss the July 2018 Book of the Month "Toni the Superhero" by R.D. Base
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Cristina Chifane
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Re: Does it matter that little Tony is black?

Post by Cristina Chifane »

kfwilson6 wrote: 01 Aug 2018, 08:35
cristinaro wrote: 01 Aug 2018, 03:14
kfwilson6 wrote: 05 Jul 2018, 21:09

I think it's nice to teach kids that they are all equal even if they look different. Maybe have more than just a discussion about color. Have a discussion about height, weight, hair color, etc as well. That way you don't emphasize that one thing that makes people different so they may be more inclined to see all differences but to treat all people as if they are valuable.
I'm going to ask you one question. You may find it odd, but it's also important. Why do people (mostly women) dye their hair? I think we are free to discuss anything we want and support our opinions with what we consider to be relevant arguments. If people had not considered this topic important or at least thought-provoking, they would not have answered or reacted in any way. They would have merely said: this question is not worth answering or thinking about.
There are various reasons why women (and men) dye their hair. Some are hiding grey hair because they don't want to look older. Some like to express various aspects of their personality; I have a friend who seems to have blue hair more often than not. And some people just like a little bit of variety. Overall, it's some type of self-expression. I'm not sure how that is the same though. Skin color you are born with and stuck with. My point was, no matter which aspects of physical appearance are changeable and which are not, children should learn to appreciate diversity in all its many forms.
Isn't the hair color something we are born with the same as the skin color? If technology advances and we are able to have our skin color change the same as we dye our hair, should people do it? It could also be a means of expressing their personality or dis/likes. Just saying. I understand your point on diversity and I'm one of its greatest supporters. In Toni's case, I somehow noticed a tendency towards uniformization rather than diversity, but that's another discussion. Thanks for sharing your ideas.
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Post by juliecsa »

cristinaro wrote: 31 Jul 2018, 02:55
FictionLover wrote: 01 Jul 2018, 19:44 I don't know.

Being the parent of a son, I well remember when he found a Batman cape and began wearing it all the time. Those are very fond memories because children see the world with wonder in their eyes, and that is how I viewed this book. I think Toni believes he is a superhero in his super-life.

R.D. Base is the mother of a few boys, and it was my opinion that she was tapping into this wonder and joy. That's how I read it and that's why I really loved it.
Great answer! Yes, this is why I have nothing against Toni having some real superpowers. Children do look at the world with wonder and they do believe in magic and miracles. Still, you yourself noticed that your son imitated some superhero he knew. Why does Toni still have a cape and a suit with the T letter on it? Why isn't he wearing some T-shirt and jeans?
I believe that Toni's attire is another thing that has to do with children's perception. He believes he is a superhero, as do the young readers, so he has been depicted that way.
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Post by juliecsa »

cristinaro wrote: 02 Aug 2018, 05:41
kfwilson6 wrote: 01 Aug 2018, 08:35
cristinaro wrote: 01 Aug 2018, 03:14

I'm going to ask you one question. You may find it odd, but it's also important. Why do people (mostly women) dye their hair? I think we are free to discuss anything we want and support our opinions with what we consider to be relevant arguments. If people had not considered this topic important or at least thought-provoking, they would not have answered or reacted in any way. They would have merely said: this question is not worth answering or thinking about.
There are various reasons why women (and men) dye their hair. Some are hiding grey hair because they don't want to look older. Some like to express various aspects of their personality; I have a friend who seems to have blue hair more often than not. And some people just like a little bit of variety. Overall, it's some type of self-expression. I'm not sure how that is the same though. Skin color you are born with and stuck with. My point was, no matter which aspects of physical appearance are changeable and which are not, children should learn to appreciate diversity in all its many forms.
Isn't the hair color something we are born with the same as the skin color? If technology advances and we are able to have our skin color change the same as we dye our hair, should people do it? It could also be a means of expressing their personality or dis/likes. Just saying. I understand your point on diversity and I'm one of its greatest supporters. In Toni's case, I somehow noticed a tendency towards uniformization rather than diversity, but that's another discussion. Thanks for sharing your ideas.
This seems like a drastic point to make considering no one is discriminated against based on hair color, so the ability to change it isn't a huge deal, as compared to the ability to change one's skin color.
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Post by juliecsa »

cristinaro wrote: 31 Jul 2018, 02:01
juliecsa wrote: 01 Jul 2018, 15:26 Personally, I don't view it as black kids can only do mundane tasks, but rather that black kids can do ANYTHING. I think it is important that Toni is black, because any and all representation is important. Kids should grow up being able to consume content with characters who are like them, and this book makes that a little easier for black kids!
I agree with you. Representation matters a lot. I didn't think this question would stir so much debate, but it did and this must prove something. Black kids should have characters to identify themselves with. Is Toni such a character? Is it a good idea to have Toni holding a broom on the cover and the broom stamping on some books?
I am not sure I understand your question. If any young black children identify with Toni, which many undoubtedly will, then yes, he is such a character. Regardless of what he does or doesn't do within the story, the mere fact that this book exists with him in it is important.
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Post by klwoodford »

I don't think the fact that Toni is a child of color has a negative message regarding limitations of colored superheroes. I think that he is a child that other children can relate with. Being a superhero is possible even without glorified superpowers.
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Post by Bookcool123 »

There is no black or white in becoming a superhero. Take for instance our hollywood black people portraying superhero roles like Black Panther, Hancock, etc. The mindset of people nowadays are more liberated. We are now open to more ideas and changes.
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Post by kamanden »

It does not matter that little Tony is black. It matters that in this book, the superhero is not pulling some unrealistic stunts and is still the hero.
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Post by CatlynnHighlights »

I feel that Tony being black is just being racially inclusive in this case. The message (to me at least) remains that superheroes don't have to have powers to be great.
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Post by Rose Anne03 »

cristinaro wrote: 01 Aug 2018, 08:47
Rose Anne03 wrote: 12 Jul 2018, 07:45 It doesnt matter if the hero is black or not as long as he/she do a great job its okay. Actually its more interesting having a black hero today, so unique.
Why is it more interesting having a black hero if you just said that it wouldn't matter if the the hero were black or white?

My point is, wether a hero is white or black it doesn't matter. What matter is how they do good things. But is unique when a hero is black, because mostly the hero is a white not a black, so it's extraordinary. If you ask children they usually knows white heroes not the black one. Hope you get my point.
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Post by Ijeoma Kikelomo »

Toni's colour had little or nothing to do with anything if you ask me. His doing ordinary chores and behaving like a regular kid, is the selling point of the book Ordinary people, doing extra ordinary things.
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Post by Aditi1992 »

According to me, no, it does not matter that Tony is black, infact this makes the character more realistic. This is so much different from the routine.
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Post by AnnaKathleen »

cristinaro wrote: 01 Jul 2018, 05:33 Tony is a jovial little black kid always with a broad smile on his face. He is engaged in the typical activities of a kid his age.

Is he meant to defy the superhero stereotype especially since he does not seem to be doing anything extraordinary?
Did you feel the book undermines the myth of the white superhero and carries a message of inter-racial tolerance?

My fear is the message could be exactly the opposite. Little black kids can only do ordinary things like helping their mother, sweeping the floor or dusting the furniture. The superpowers still belong to the little white kids. I am wondering if Tony will actually have some superpowers in the next books of the series. What do you think?
This is a really great thought. I never considered the idea that it could be construed as black kids only do normal things.

My thoughts were all over the place but leaned towards: "great! a kid of color as a superhero", "we need more superheros of color", and "we need more books with minority lead characters for kids to see themselves in the place of the story." I think we as a society are moving forward but are still slow to change stereotypes and expectations that exist based on precedence.

I also thought the book was great in the sense that superheros don't just fight crime, they help others and try to do their best no matter what the challenge is - fighting a villain or helping with dishes. Ordinary people doing ordinary things are just as super as the people we see in movies and comics. There are multiple ways to be a "hero".

I suppose if you wanted to say it shows kids do a lot of the same things no matter what they look like you could, but that thought never really crossed my mind.
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Post by Fozia-Bajwa »

Not at all I'm not agreed with this statement. Not all the superpowers are associated with white kids and not all the ordinary powers and skills are associated with black kids. The actual superpower is intervowen with the cognitive, behavioral and good psychic skills.
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Post by David Horta Alonso »

Depends on the side of the coin that you look at it from. I think focusing on Toni's skin colour is an act of racism. That should be discouraged.
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Post by Marcos Vera »

Toni is an amazing character. It is harsh to judge him based on his skin colour. That would be errant racism.
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